January 2, 2011

  • Regarding Relationships

    I have tried very hard (for someone with *NO* psych background) to figure out the effects of having family involved in your life.  This is a HUGE topic of discussion.  So many ways to go with it. by the way.

    For example, one part of it might have to do with caring for family – “priority of family” might be a better way to say it.  Take nursing homes.  There just weren’t retirement villages in 1850, to pick a date.  (In fact, that’s when schools were just starting to become widespread.)  In those times, families needed each other.  The elderly took care of the children, helped to educate them, did chores to free up the younger folk to do harder labor.  It’s not like that anymore – we are a society that shoves our kids off into daycares so that we can work/gain wealth, then shove those children into schools all day (regardless of whether or not we work)..  So is it any wonder that we shove our elderly off into retirement homes instead of caring for them?  Family impedes personal freedom.

    That’s just one topic within the broader subject of relationships.  I also have considered how the family size (number of children) affects a family.  My MiL had two children – both of which have nothing to do with them.  My mother had three… she has significantly more to do with hers.  My aunt had five children (as did my second cousins).  They are constantly together, a family that is close and bound.  OTOH, my ex-fiance came from a family of five, and they split and every kid moved to a different state – they are NOT close, at all.  What happened, there?  And I know single child families where the child and mother are so close… which makes me wonder if size is a determining factor in closeness, or if it just leads to busyness/more events/more connection (because there are more grand kids to watch?).

    Weltangschauung is another factor I have spent a LOT of time considering.  It’s a big German word that refers to the ‘worldview/behavior’ a child is taught in the first seven years of his/her life.  Stubbornness, anger management, patience, stillness, kindness… these things are learned as a child develops.  That’s why we have so many personality disorders today.  How many children are on drugs like Ritalin to ‘manage’ them?  While I wonder how much can be attributed to vaccines (chemical imbalances), I also can guarantee that those daycares and the lack of a caring parent aware of the development of a weltangschauung is another HUGE factor.  This is a MAJOR bone of contention between my husband and I, because the behaviors I see him teaching the children are NOT in line with what I consider acceptable.  But that’s a rant for another day.

    What I really… I’ve wasted a lot of space, but what I’m getting to is the place of extended family in a child’s life.  When I was a little girl (younger than 8), I spent a LOT of time with my grandmother (Dad’s mom).  My mom would drop me off there, because I was older and a bigger handful than my brother and sister (both in diapers).  So I got a half-n-half weltangschauung: half my mom (impulsive, temperful, irrational, selfish) and half my grandmother (patient, kind, organized, service-oriented).  Meanwhile my brother and sister didn’t get that same mixed bag… they just got my mom’s.

    Now I’d always valued extended family FAR more than my brother and sister have… I was very interested in seeing family, reconnecting with people, going to reunions, spending time with my aunt.  I was the one who hung out with the cousins.  My brother and sister never went to reunions, couldn’t have cared less about seeing anyone, and didn’t much hang with the cousins… and I thought it was because of my grandmother’s weltangschauung. 

    As opposed to what my mom’s world-view was.  Over and over, all my growing up years, I heard “They had their family, now I have mine”.  When I was 8, we joined the Air Force and I grew up the rest of the way a LONG ways from family.  It was “just us”… and my mom WANTED it that way. 

    And even back then I knew that it would bite her in the butt, that in the end, she was raising us to have our “own families” someday… which would exclude her.  And I thought that, as a result, I would have to work HARD to show my kids the value of spending time with the grandparents in order for my kids to have that same world-view that I had… even though a WHOLE ‘nother part of me wanted nothing to do with family.  Because that’s what I’d lived MOST of my life.

    So the past FIFTEEN years, I have fought tooth and nail to keep extended family as a big part of my life, for the sake of my children.  And it was really a battle:  Brian’s mother is a horrible, selfish, bigoted person.  She has belittled my faith, disrespected my household rules, guilted me about my parenting/visit frequency, gotten every dirty dig she could in over anything and everything SHE didn’t approve of… I hated it.    And she neglected my boys – she only likes girls, so (just as she neglected Brian growing up), she has ignored and cast aside my boys… which was THE last straw.  When she started to hurt them to where they realized it, it was over for her.

    Conversely, my mother has utterly SMOTHERED my children.  It’s never enough.  We did town day every other Friday for years, but she always pushed for more, went beyond my comfort zone, disregarded my boundaries… it has been nightmaric.  I finally said ENOUGH to the Town Days, hoping that would allow me MORE distance.  Instead, she has taken that as a freedom to do as she wishes and in the past two months we have seen her every single week, and recently got calls every single day.  It. Has. Driven. Me. Crazy.  Because she raised us that ‘you had your family, now we have ours’… and while I wanted to keep family involved closer than when I was younger (which was – never)… she pushes too far.

    But I have tolerated it, because I felt like I *HAD* to.  I wanted my kids to want me in their lives when they had families, and I thought… well, I explained that already.  What a MESS.  And I have been utterly miserable.

    Then came the day I cast Brian’s parents OUT of my life.  I thought for sure I would feel guilty about it.  I thought I would ‘miss’ something of it, that I would see something in my children that would speak of a need to get with them again.  And you know what?  I haven’t.  All that happened was that this HUGE weight was lifted off of me, and I was FREE of the shit, of the nastiness, of the guilt-trips and stress and trouble.  I have been SO FREE, so light!  It has been WONDERFUL.  Brian, of course, doesn’t like that reaction, and I certainly wasn’t expecting it.  But now that the load is off… I am never going back.

    But I’ve forced myself to deal with my mother.  Because of the ‘keep the extended family’ thing I thought I’d learned from my grandmother.  It’s been utter misery, and it just gets worse and worse and worse, her encroaching until I can’t breathe and finally blow up in her face, then she takes just enough steps back to let me diffuse, then starts the encroachment all over again.  It never ends.  It drives me crazy.  And if she were a rational, understanding human it would be different, but my mother is controlling, demanding, unhearing, and utterly self-absorbed.  And if I don’t do it her way, I’m the ‘bad-guy’.  The uncooperative one.  And I HATE that.

    Then something happened.  In all this holiday bullshit where she was forcing me to come over because of this or that (‘But the kids HAVE to put up my Nutcrackers on a separate day than everything else!!!’)… I suddenly realized that… my brother and sister didn’t grow up with my Grandmother’s weltangschauun, and yet they are FAR more attached to my mother than I am.  They grew up with the ‘my family’ thing, and it’s still ‘her family’.  My brother calls my mom ALL the time… my sister LIVES with her, hello!  They are so damn close…!

    And my aunt’s family – the one that was five kids and that I thought was so close?  They’re spread from here to Bolivia.  They don’t see each other.  Half of them don’t even LIKE each other.  And they grew up seeing the grandparents and extended family.

    I think I got it all wrong.  I think I’ve screwed up big.  And I’m thinking thru some MASSIVE changes.  As in, maybe I don’t have to be miserable and deal with people who make my life stressful.  Maybe I don’t have to push the extended family… maybe I’ve handled it all wrong.  Maybe it isn’t the way I thought it was.  I’m… just thinking out loud.  But this is the way my thoughts have been going.  Maybe I don’t have to play martyr anymore.

    Maybe this year, I can make some big changes… and finally find peace and happiness.

Comments (11)

  • Just musings, so you can take what you need to. 

    I’m an only child of an only child (my dad) and we always spent time with his parents growing up – just like we spend time with my parents now.  If we *don’t*, then they’re all alone (for holidays etc).

    That kinda got sucky, switching holidays around back and forth, so I just declared that *everyone* should come to my house (implying heavily that if we were having holidays elsewhere, whoever was in charge of also inviting *everyone*).  I don’t like dis-inclusion.  We still do special stuff for my grandpa – but he’s 93 and when you’re 93, you get special treatment.

    DH’s parents are dead.  We do stuff with his sister and the aunt that lives in town, but it takes some juggling.  The family cultures are different, and his sister’s mental health isn’t good, and she *used* to be the glue.  One of my resolutions is to get tight with his aunt – fortunately she sews, so I’m going to use that as glue.

    Now, DH’s mom was one of 14 (!) and they’re all close-knit.  Even those, like MIL, who no longer lived in the state they started in, all stayed close on the phone.  (My mom, one of four, does the same thing with her sibs). 

    I *miss* family, honestly.  The point of family, IMO, is that they’ll always be there for you.  I know, without question, that if I picked up the phone and called my cousin, “G – I just broke my leg, I need xyz” he’d be over here.  I haven’t seen him in an age, but – he’s family.  I don’t need to be up in his business for that to be true.

    Stuff with *your* mom always seems to be about her continuing to have “her” family.  It’s a control thing, not a cooperative thing or a love thing.  Honestly I don’t see that changing unless you or she moves far far away. 

    Big HUGS – analysis is the first step to solution! 

  • I hear you. Dad is 1 of 8 – we did reunions every year, and I hated it. Still do – his family is very competitive. Mom is 1 of 2 – but she plays favorites to the point it hurt both kids.

    I don’t have a solution – I see Dad occasionally, hadn’t seen Mom since August. It’s been nice, just being us…..

  • Very interesting thoughts! My family is very small. My dad has one brother that he doesn’t speak to. My mom is an only child. I’m an only child. Rick has a sister that he doesn’t speak to. None of my grandparents are still alive. So, it’s basically the four of us plus my parents. Rick talks to his mother, but I don’t. The kids have a very small relationship with her…they see her maybe a couple of times a year when Rick brings them over to her place. She offended me one too many times, and that was it for me.

    We live 2 minutes from my parents and I love it. Ryan and Raegan see my parents almost every day. Ryan is very, very close to my dad and Raegan is super close with my mom. My dad brings each one out to dinner once a week on a different day to spend time with them one-on-one.

    It is very important to me that my kids have a close relationship with my parents because I believe they are such great role models.

    Now I will say that my parents are very respectful of our parenting beliefs and they don’t ever cross any boundaries. They truly are wonderful.

    I think that if you feel uncomfortable about any part of your relationship with your mom, then you need to set it straight so that you can be at peace.

  • I lost my mother 18 months ago to ovarian cancer.  She use to call me every day, sometimes way too early, or come over when I was busy.  I remember feeling very annoyed sometimes.   What I wouldn’t give to have the phone ring now or to see her happy face coming up my driveway. 

    You have a gift to have your mom who loves you and WANTS to spend time with you.  Someday she won’t be there and it will be too lae.

  • Carmen – your comment was a waste of finger strength.

    Anna – I don’t see or talk to my mom at all. ever. I tried, but sadly her corvette cannot touch the inferior dust of my road, and of course now my dad lives here and they hate each other. I have not talked to her for over 5 years.

    The problem is your mom doesn’t respect you as a parent. I am a grandparent. When the kids and grandkids were living under my roof it was HARD. Because our parenting styles are very different – and the kids were resentful because they didn’t want my husband and I yelling at their kids (of course when the kid is using markers on my carpeting – I get a little upset). They disrespected our house rules. We were missing out on a huge chunk of communication, because everyone was resentful.

    Now that I am babysitting and they have their own house things are 1000 times better. Mostly because my daughter-in-law has grown to be a great mom and I do not interfer with her parenting.

    I have the same problem on the other end since my dad and sister are quasi-parents to my kid and he is always getting yelled at for something that -to me- is no big deal.

    As long as your mom keeps trying to boss around people who she has no authority over there will be problems. The other kids let her – and so she thinks that is how it should be with you too. One of my dearest friends is going through this right now, her mom is always in her business and calling everyday and making plans at the last minute. Her mom is a nice lady, but she really over steps her bounds. And because everyone is used to it, they don’t really say anything, but this christmas finally my friend lost her temper and told her mom that she had enough, she was sick of always changing her plans to accomidate other people.Not sure how that will work out for her…

    get a gate. If she doesn’t want her crap locked up behind a gate have her move it to a new location. it is not fair to you to have someone always dropping in. I have a similar situation wehre my dad and sister think because I homeschool one kid that I am not really *that* busy and I can entertain them all day…I love them, but somedays I have to send them away.

  • One thing you are not accounting for in the equation – personalities. If the person is toxic, then the relationship does more damage than good. Is it good for your kids too see you getting all worked up? In all the families you discuss, the people are different, their relationships are all gonna be different. I don’t think there is a certain way to go for all. It all hinges on the personalities in question.

    In my own life, all my grandparents were dead except for one and he lived in FL. (We were in NC.) I never met him ’till I was 21. We were never close. I was close to my mom, but that all changed my 26th year, and I was never close to my dad. So, my kids barely know them. Their biological fathers are no good, and so they never see those grandparents either. However, I am very close with my kids, and my oldest who will be 17 in March, is dreading moving out. So, I think it is the *type* of relationship.

    I have no doubt that your children adore you and will never cast you out of their lives. And I have thought for years that it would do you a world of good to write your mom off. I think you will feel just as free as when you did your mother-in-law. I don’t think anything motivated by guilt or duty alone ends up being a good thing.

    I have learned from experience with you that I can open my big mouth and say something wrong, or the wrong way, and make you mad. If I just did that I am sorry. I really like you and only want to see you happy and not so stressed. You have so much responsibility that can stress you out as it is.

  • Another thought (I HATE having only 1 hand to type with!) – doesn’t the Bible basically say that when you marry, you go off ON YOUR OWN and start your own household? I mean…I get the whole “honor your father and mother” thing….but, y’know, it doesn’t say LOVE your father and mother. (Think about that….I can honor someone I don’t *like*, let alone *love*).

    Now, I’m not saying I – or you – hate Mom. But….my relationship with my mother had gotten very toxic. She doesn’t even speak to my brother now…..some of that is his fault, but not all of it. I’m almost at that point – she came over yesterday for a 30 minute visit….and spent much of that ignoring the kids and talking about her. :rolleyes: You’d think that she’d want to re-connect to the only grandkids she has contact with, and hasn’t seen since AUGUST, but….there ya go.

    Me? I’ve actually been happier since my mother has been out of the picture. The *kids* are happier – but we are still dealing with the fallout of her preferring Ian to Cait….and it’s a mess. It’s going to take a LOT of time (and therapy……glad we have decent insurance!) to get the kids to a point that they can deal with it. I wouldn’t wish that on you – but I can see it coming to that if the situation doesn’t improve. And it sucks to even *think* about making this kind of decision…….BTDT.

    {{{hugs}}}, and I hope you can come to a decision that will make *you* and *your* family happy. Your mother has her life…she doesn’t need to run yours!

  • My mom and dad’s family were vastly different from eachother. My grandma (on my dad’s side) was always nice to me, but remained distant. She didn’t call or come over, I’d see her only once a year. My other grandma (mom’s side) was a very different relationship however. She demanded a weekly visit to the house, and a visit to her house every weekend. She’d call almost every other day and wish to speak to every single person present. If it was your birthday, everyone else would have to get a present too. If my mom made a cake, she’d have to make two more. She’d play and pit people. And there was a good reason for this in her mind..

    When my mom married, my grandma told her the only reason, was that she was just escaping her family responsibilities (all of her hopes and dreams were pinned on her daughter to do things she never got the chance to), and she did not approve of my dad. She controlled the wedding, and when my sisters came along attempted to control parenting too. There was a reason for this, but mostly because this is how she was treated by her own father when she was young. When my parents couldn’t take it anymore, they reduced her to the visits that I mentioned. When I came along of course she demanded more and more time and involvement and it became a major source of stress and worry for everyone. After my grandpa died and she moved into a facility things went downhill. Her son who felt even more smothered and driven away basically abandoned her. We visited when we could but it was always now very straigned if not awkward. When she died, I often asked myself if she had finally made peace with things.. but I don’t think so. I don’t spend my days wishing that all my grandparents I’ve lost would ring on the phone (as one person here suggested), death is a part of living. The time we are allowed with them is what must be, but that doesn’t mean we should sit and suffer through toxic relationships either. My mom knows what it is like to be smothered most of her life, therefore she respects whatever choices I will make when I become a parent. My MIL will possibly be a different story…

    She’s very hands-on, and is used to having everyone dump their kids on her so much so she actually enjoys it (literally leaving her door open to whatever relative of the day wants to eat her out of house and home). We want our family to be very different, close to our extended family but at the same time kept to a respectful distance.

    Anna the things your mom does goes way over that line of respect, trust, and love. Only you can lay down the boundaries of how far she can push. You know it’s not a healthy relationship, ask yourself perhaps is this what He wants for me or is He trying to show me something?

  • Exactly, Cagey.

    And I took the comment about wishing every day to hear from their mother with a grain of salt – sounds like the guilt is alive and well with that person.

    I figure I have one life to live. Spending it miserable is NOT on my to-do list. Scripture says the sins of the parents carry on to the next generations… that’s because they don’t break away from the sins. It’s not about me or her, it’s about the behavior/actions.

  • I’ve often observed that families with strong religious standards tend to lose their adult children to distance.  I’m from a religious family of 8 and we are spread all over the country.  I think as adults we wanted to flee, mainly to sin in peace (!) Ha!  Turns out the joke was on me.  But, by the time I wised up, my life’s course was already set in another place, far from my family.

    My husband’s family of 5 was religious, but didn’t demand lofty standards.  They are all close, including cousins, aunts and uncles, in terms of distance and emotion.

  • My husband and I had/have distanced ourselves from relatives that have been hurtful. In some cases, they tried to push themselves on us and other cases they’ve given us our space. (and I’m talking LONG separations, years in fact.) We’ve been gradually working to rebuild those relationships based on current behavior. Since we’ve already shut them out once, they know one step in the wrong direction and that’s it. But we have also strengthened relationships outside of “traditional” family in order to provide an extended family for our children. People who we feel we can trust and count on and who respect and support the decisions we’ve made. We have several close friends who serve in the positions of “aunt” or “uncle”. Family isn’t just who is related to you by blood or marriage. It’s people who truly care about you.

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